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  1. #671
    People really like blowing this whole Kefla thing way out of proportion. Fusion is known to have ridiculous multipliers. Regardless on whether it is Metamoran or Potara. Besides, she lasted long enough against fully powered Goku to deplete the stamina he had built up really. She didn't straight up outmatch him.

    Oh... Regarding all the U6 Saiyans "making a mockery of the SS transformation"... Here is my analogy regarding the situation. They are like MMO players who bought an item to skip to endgame. They seem weak at first cause they didn't take the time to properly learn their kits. However Goku has slowly been teaching them about what they can do, gradually increasing their effectiveness in battle. And while they may have a better grasp on their kits now, their body's (or using the analogy, their gear) are still lackluster.

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  3. #672
    Investigator MarianSony's Avatar
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    ok, maybe another transformation is logical but if she's going toe to toe with him while being UI it will be the most BS thing in super till now

  4. #673
    M Stone-Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theOrator View Post
    Well, the problem with DB is that in this case, you literally NEVER get what you want, unless you're a Goku or Vegeta fan.

    At least with Bleach, Kubo made some attempt to hide his favoritism. Sure he pulled some troll moves here and there, but it never seemed overt to me. Toriyama is literally shoving his crap right in everyone's faces, and the majority of fans let him get away with for the same reason you've suggested, nostalgia. Because DB/Z were classics, therefor Toriyama can do no wrong in their eyes. At least up until he starts screwing their favorite character (cough Gohan fans cough), then all of a sudden those same fans want to feign outrage. I.E. MarianSony

    For that last part, that was what I was getting at, imagine high-gravity trained (300-400x Earth's gravity), Kaio-ken wielding human Z-warriors with 2-4 days of Spirit&Time room training under their belt, and their potential unleashed by the Elder Kai, stepping up to take on the wolf trio in a 3-way fight that ends in a ki-battle between the two groups. That ish would've been epic AF, heck even seeing Yamcha break out the Wolf Fang Fist against one of them would've been freaking awesome.
    Indeed. Kira, Ikaku, Renji and just about all squad leaders and captains got to shine fittingly. Kira became my personal favorite after he defeated Redder, revealing the name sake of his zanpakuto. The inconsistencies between hollow classifications and random power ups just drove me nuts though.

    I have to slap myself for barely noticing Tien is present. To be honest, I haven't been watching super chronologically and am unaware of Tien's involvement in the tournament if any.
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    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Darc-star View Post
    I have to wonder... does dio just permanently pose or something?

  5. #674
    I'm ok with the Fusion being as arguably powerful as it is.
    Goku's not at 100% and that's a big factor.
    The only thing I will be annoyed at is if they throw out the "Greater power level equals lower Fusion time" thing that was brought up in the last arc. If they use Kale's controlled Broly Form, I don't see it lasting long.

  6. #675
    are you sdaoilhdsaljhg kidding me?! your telling me kefla is on par with Goku Blue?

    and the fact that he even had to bring out Ultra to match up feels like such an insult. if your gonna give @$$pulls, at least give it to likable characters.

    don't care that they are the first saiyan girls, their trash characters. this mini filler arc should end already and get back to Jiren and Toppo


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  7. #676
    M Stone-Free's Avatar
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    I mean....Gotenks was on par with Super Buu even though Goten and Trunks wouldn't have stood a chance individually. Fusion has always been a gross multiplier in strength. Shouldn't be too hard to grasp. I am anxious to see what will be done with Jiren because he's ridiculous.
    R.I.P My Beautiful Air Conditioning - 2007-2013

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Darc-star View Post
    I have to wonder... does dio just permanently pose or something?

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  9. #677
    Investigator MarianSony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone-Free View Post
    I mean....Gotenks was on par with Super Buu even though Goten and Trunks wouldn't have stood a chance individually. Fusion has always been a gross multiplier in strength. Shouldn't be too hard to grasp. I am anxious to see what will be done with Jiren because he's ridiculous.
    Super buu is not on the same level as Goku blue...he's much weaker...and watch again....gotenks didn't stand a a chance against super buu.( even as SSJ3) so yes...I call it BS that she's on par with blue and barely got any injuries with blue+kaioken

  10. #678
    M Stone-Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarianSony View Post
    Super buu is not on the same level as Goku blue...he's much weaker...and watch again....gotenks didn't stand a a chance against super buu.( even as SSJ3) so yes...I call it BS that she's on par with blue and barely got any injuries with blue+kaioken
    Well yea, no one ever is on par (especially with Goku) after an arc or two in this universe lol
    To be fair, consider how weak Goten and Trunks were in comparison to Super Buu. No contest right? To go from that to SSJ3 AND on par is a testament to how powerful fusion is. It's not like Buu was mopping the floor with them. Aside from Buu's busted regeneration ability, that fight could have gone either way.
    Another thing to consider is Potara Fusion being superior to Fusion Dance. And we're talking a couple of SS2, and Kale of which appears to have a Legendary form.
    R.I.P My Beautiful Air Conditioning - 2007-2013

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Darc-star View Post
    I have to wonder... does dio just permanently pose or something?

  11. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Stone-Free View Post
    Indeed. Kira, Ikaku, Renji and just about all squad leaders and captains got to shine fittingly. Kira became my personal favorite after he defeated Redder, revealing the name sake of his zanpakuto. The inconsistencies between hollow classifications and random power ups just drove me nuts though.

    I have to slap myself for barely noticing Tien is present. To be honest, I haven't been watching super chronologically and am unaware of Tien's involvement in the tournament if any.
    True, that Kira moment was also one of my favorites as well, although I must say Hisagi kinda had the more epic looking zanpakuto, in terms of design. That said, you KNOW you have a problem when TITE KUBO is better at developing side character than you (Toriyama) are.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonic View Post
    are you sdaoilhdsaljhg kidding me?! your telling me kefla is on par with Goku Blue?

    and the fact that he even had to bring out Ultra to match up feels like such an insult. if your gonna give @$$pulls, at least give it to likable characters.

    don't care that they are the first saiyan girls, their trash characters. this mini filler arc should end already and get back to Jiren and Toppo
    LMFAO oh so a$$pulls can only be applied to characters one likes eh? Oh, the blatant hypocrisy and lack of standards is beautiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianSony View Post
    Super buu is not on the same level as Goku blue...he's much weaker...and watch again....gotenks didn't stand a a chance against super buu.( even as SSJ3) so yes...I call it BS that she's on par with blue and barely got any injuries with blue+kaioken
    I disagree with that part on Gotenks, especially as a SSJ 3, he was clearly competitive with Super Buu. Granted, it was a much closer battle than Ultimate Gohan vs Super Buu, but it was still competitive nonetheless. Lastly, the way fusion works is that it literally multiplies one person's base vs another person's base (the difference with Potara & fusion dance being that potara doesn't require the users to be completely even in strength, while the fusion dance does), and given that power levels are a long ancient relic of the past in the series, the writers have plenty of leeway to get away with pulling this off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone-Free View Post
    Well yea, no one ever is on par (especially with Goku) after an arc or two in this universe lol
    To be fair, consider how weak Goten and Trunks were in comparison to Super Buu. No contest right? To go from that to SSJ3 AND on par is a testament to how powerful fusion is. It's not like Buu was mopping the floor with them. Aside from Buu's busted regeneration ability, that fight could have gone either way.
    Another thing to consider is Potara Fusion being superior to Fusion Dance. And we're talking a couple of SS2, and Kale of which appears to have a Legendary form.
    Is it just me, or does anyone else find it weird that they've never seemingly made a distinction between ordinary & legendary SSJ forms? I always thought that there should've been some difference, in terms of power, between the two, with Legendary being the slightly stronger form of the two, but still weaker than SSJ 2. So using the SSJ multiplier, something like, SSJ = 50X base, legendary SSJ = 70-75x base, SSJ 2 = 100x base.

  12. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Stone-Free View Post
    Indeed. Kira, Ikaku, Renji and just about all squad leaders and captains got to shine fittingly. Kira became my personal favorite after he defeated Redder, revealing the name sake of his zanpakuto. The inconsistencies between hollow classifications and random power ups just drove me nuts though.

    I have to slap myself for barely noticing Tien is present. To be honest, I haven't been watching super chronologically and am unaware of Tien's involvement in the tournament if any.
    True, that Kira moment was also one of my favorites as well, although I must say Hisagi kinda had the more epic looking zanpakuto, in terms of design. That said, you KNOW you have a problem when TITE KUBO is better at developing side character than you (Toriyama) are.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonic View Post
    are you sdaoilhdsaljhg kidding me?! your telling me kefla is on par with Goku Blue?

    and the fact that he even had to bring out Ultra to match up feels like such an insult. if your gonna give @$$pulls, at least give it to likable characters.

    don't care that they are the first saiyan girls, their trash characters. this mini filler arc should end already and get back to Jiren and Toppo
    LMFAO oh so a$$pulls can only be applied to characters one likes eh? Oh, the blatant hypocrisy and lack of standards is beautiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianSony View Post
    Super buu is not on the same level as Goku blue...he's much weaker...and watch again....gotenks didn't stand a a chance against super buu.( even as SSJ3) so yes...I call it BS that she's on par with blue and barely got any injuries with blue+kaioken
    I disagree with that part on Gotenks, especially as a SSJ 3, he was clearly competitive with Super Buu. Granted, it was a much closer battle than Ultimate Gohan vs Super Buu, but it was still competitive nonetheless. Lastly, the way fusion works is that it literally multiplies one person's base vs another person's base (the difference with Potara & fusion dance being that potara doesn't require the users to be completely even in strength, while the fusion dance does), and given that power levels are a long ancient relic of the past in the series, the writers have plenty of leeway to get away with pulling this off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone-Free View Post
    Well yea, no one ever is on par (especially with Goku) after an arc or two in this universe lol
    To be fair, consider how weak Goten and Trunks were in comparison to Super Buu. No contest right? To go from that to SSJ3 AND on par is a testament to how powerful fusion is. It's not like Buu was mopping the floor with them. Aside from Buu's busted regeneration ability, that fight could have gone either way.
    Another thing to consider is Potara Fusion being superior to Fusion Dance. And we're talking a couple of SS2, and Kale of which appears to have a Legendary form.
    Is it just me, or does anyone else find it weird that they've never seemingly made a distinction between ordinary & legendary SSJ forms? I always thought that there should've been some difference, in terms of power, between the two, with Legendary being the slightly stronger form of the two, but still weaker than SSJ 2. So using the SSJ multiplier, something like, SSJ = 50X base, legendary SSJ = 70-75x base, SSJ 2 = 100x base.

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